About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

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Rosetta
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About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

Postby Rosetta » 10 months ago

I must stand up against the belief that it is deemed okay to tell other people how to behave, and where they should go or not go when they are not the person part of the conversation or target.

Let me explain better with an example:

Person A: Oh I feel rather down today
Person B: Aw come in my arms lets hug
Person C: Hey B, you cant do that because you were hugging Person D,E and F already!

---------------------

In my honest opinion, person C has no business deciding over what Person B can do or not do.
Why? Well, because this is an adult website where, primarily, everyone can judge perfectly well for themselves what they want and do not want.

I have been part of another community before, and sooner than later, I discovered the intricate pattern of deep control and censorship. Private messages between members were read, men were treated suspiciously right off the bat and the forum was bold with "Leave him! You deserve better!" -advice without people actually knowing the situation or either one of the partners thoroughly. But worst of all; noone could be an adult, especially not the Littles.

I find it *extremely* important to have a full reliability of judgement as a Little especially, because even though we are liking to feel little, losing your adult rights and credibility is just NOT okay.
Of course, as more people join, and get to know each other, more drama will join as well.
And of course, there will always be cute, innocent little (girls) private messaging others moaning about how much they are being "bothered" by lurkers/predators/attention.
And THIS, is something where I want to be very clear in: If they were really that bothered by it, then they can, as very capable and primarily adult people, very well message the people they are bothered by and please ask them to stop. I am 100% sure they will, and if not, it can be addressed publicly in a forum and the situation/misunderstanding can be discussed within this awesome, heartwarming and loving community of ADULT people.

Thank you for understanding,
And this message comes in hopes of not yet having to say goodbye to good, adult freedom in a CG/l community.

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Rosetta
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Re: About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

Postby Rosetta » 10 months ago

And excuse my typo in the title... Predators*

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purplebunny
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Re: About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

Postby purplebunny » 10 months ago

This an excellent point and brings up wonderful points!

I agree, while its nice of the idea to have someone step in for us sadly not everyone wants that and we should trust peoples better judgment until they specify they may need help. Sometimes we don't all view things the same way and while I might view something as creepy you might swiftly accept that and I guess its okay as long as ALL parties are ok with it.

On the gossip side I agree, gossip just brings upon bad reputations. I think although we shouldn't ignore peoples complaints on others we also should try our best to hear from everyone involved and keep unbiased opinions. Especially since once something is said in a public chat it can't be taken back and neither can the impressions that are made.

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1Teven
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Re: About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

Postby 1Teven » 10 months ago

I love all your writings. You are never afraid to speak the truth. I agree with you 10000%

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Re: About "perdators" and general rivalry or overprotection (especially in chat)

Postby admin » 10 months ago

Hi, Rosetta! :)

I really, really, really want to address every single thing you've listed out here. I hope you see the point of view from an outsider of the situation that occurred.

Please know that I did see the incident and know all three parties (Person A, Person B, and Person C) that were involved in the conversation you're referencing.

This is the view from an outsider:

Person C is in chat every day. Every single day. Person C is, very often, in chat for many hours of the day. Some days, Person C is in chat nearly all day. There is no shame in this though, but, obviously, Person C has seen most users in chat and has an idea of how most of them interact during chat. Person C knows who is entering frequently and who is not. Person C sees interactions going on between users that are posting through chat.

Recently, Person B has been flirtatious-seeming to many females in chat. This is clearly indicated by Person B referring to these females as "sweetheart," "sweetie," "baby," and other endearing names.

We are adults and our Caregiver/little relationships are often connected to BDSM. Just like in BDSM, some endearing names indicate they are flirting or acting in a romantic stance.

"Sweetheart"
"Sweetie"
"Baby"
and referring to themselves as "Daddy" to a female

All of these are considered flirtatious. I'm not sure how a person in the Caregiver/little scene would not know this unless they are extremely new to these dynamics.

So, when Person B also then begins roleplaying moments where they are showing care to yet another female, Person C is obviously going to think, "Gee whiz, this Person B is hitting on every female that will respond to their advances! This is sure annoying because I'm just trying to chat and not see this person flirt with every body who will allow it..."

So, when Person C speaks up and says they have had enough of seeing a flirtatious attitude from Person B to every female that will allow it, Person C very much has the right to back up that claim. They have been in chat for many, many hours over many, many days. They have seen many, many interactions that you have not seen.

Person C may also see online interactions as equivalent to personal interactions. Would you want to sit in a platonic cafe all day and watch one person seem to flirt with every female that walked in over a period of weeks? Person C may associate these things as similar events.

Now, think of this:

Person C wants to have conversation. Person C is waiting in chat to, you know, chat with other people in a group situation.

Person A and Person B begin focusing on only each other.

So, logically, Person A and Person B should find themselves a more private way to continue their one-on-one discussion, talk, or roleplay. It isn't a group conversation if it's only Person A and Person B.

Rosetta wrote:I must stand up against the belief that it is deemed okay to tell other people how to behave


Rosetta wrote:In my honest opinion, person C has no business deciding over what Person B can do or not do.


Really?

Really?

Hi, pot. Please meet the kettle. I think you may see that you two share some similarities.

Why do you feel it's wrong for Person C to then suggest that Person A and Person B take their conversation privately? Person C often sees Person B flirting one-on-one with females and has all the reason to expect that the hug may progress into something more one-on-one more rapidly.

Nobody wants to be the third wheel in a conversation where the first 2 wheels all focused on each other in a romantic-seeming fashion. The third feels like the oddball. It's an uncomfortable situation. When the third sees this very often, the third is going to get a little tired of it.

If person C has no business to ask Person A and/or Person B to take the romantic-seeming conversation privately without private messaging Person A and Person B then what makes it okay for you to post publicly on the forum saying that Person C had no right? Do you somehow have some special rights where you can dictate who can say what and when as long as it isn't offensive to you?

What gives you the right to do this and speak your mind, but leave Person C absolutely powerless and shushed in their request?

Rosetta wrote:I have been part of another community before, and sooner than later, I discovered the intricate pattern of deep control and censorship. Private messages between members were read, men were treated suspiciously right off the bat and the forum was bold with "Leave him! You deserve better!" -advice without people actually knowing the situation or either one of the partners thoroughly. But worst of all; noone could be an adult, especially not the Littles.


In terms of the other forum you came from--Littlespace Online is not them. I really don't appreciate you comparing us to them over and over but you've said what you've said and that's alright. There is no reason you have brought up the other forum unless you are comparing Littlespace Online to them though. If you think we are the same site you are probably about to be rudely awakened because I'm not going to put fluff around my reply.

  • 1. I have zero desire to read any of your private messages on the site. It's the very last thing I desire to do because I don't like micro-managing and wholeheartedly believe in maintaining a level of privacy.
    Your private messages (chat or through the site) are never read here. Never. It's not even in the script because I don't want to see them.

  • 2. There is a level of censorship, yes, but that is like all things in this world. I wouldn't let someone post a belittling post about how horrible another member is just because they felt like it without saying or doing something because I care about our members and future members here. I don't allow folks under the age of 18 to post or be active on the site for legal and moral reasons.

    I don't hide our complaints though and I feel that's pretty obvious. I've posted multiple times about them. I've posted embarrassing things that have happened to the site--like when it went down for nearly 2 weeks. I've posted about the reason for our rule of keeping chat programs and social media sites private. We are far, far from hiding behind curtains and pretending we are all rainbows and sunshine, but there are limitations for what I can absolutely allow.

    For example, today there was a person in chat who began to explain how they felt about realistic, sometimes brutal, forced encounters scenes in movies that are depicting real life events or stories. They noted that they felt positive about the female getting forced encountered in a traumatic way. They even went on to say that, in their head, they thought, "...look how good you're taking it! You'll heal from this..." They were met with encouragement for feeling that way.

    If I was to censor anything, I'm pretty sure that would've been cut out because those of us who have had traumatic incidents actually occur to them like that were highly offended, possibly triggered, and emotionally upset about it for hours. We're adults though, right? Having adult conversations that we can absolutely choose to leave at any time.

    On the other hand though, the other adults in the conversation need to respect the other adults. Conversations need to be chosen well. Conversation should be something that most people can chat about or that can flow okay into other topics. Something that is neutral enough to discuss. Risque conversation is fine but it should be said in a group discussion tone rather than a one-on-one manner, as if the other members in the chat room don't exist (because that's just rude), and should only tread through controversial topics with care for other members' thoughts and feelings.

    Censorship though? I didn't censor a bit of that conversation. I didn't turn off chat. I didn't boot members off of the site. I didn't ban or block anyone for saying they liked to watch women in movies get painfully, aggressively forced encountered.

  • 3. I see a lot that goes on in public chat, but, do you know what is funny? I've never, never, gotten a report from a female saying that a male is harassing her or is a predator.

    Sure, I send plenty of warnings out to both males and females regarding posting personal ads in the chat or assuming that the site is just a hook-up/dating zone. Those are warnings that I, personally, choose to send based on information that I, personally, see being posted publicly on the forum and/or chat.

    I banned one male back in June or July of last year because he was harassing every single member that signed on in the chat for sensual conversation. When he began to harass the Admin account then enough was enough. He was banned for a week.

    This being said, we're not out to assume that every male is a creep or predator.

    I, personally, have a tendency to let things escalate and wait for someone to make a formal complaint. I see plenty of users who are overly flirtatious. We had a user once who collected Daddies like a person would collect pennies. She would often claim, "I'm sad. I don't have a Daddy..." and collect yet another one. None of those Daddies complained to me so there wasn't much I could do because I understand and support polyamory. I didn't know if her partners knew about each other and it wasn't my place to tell her that there were limitations.

  • 4. I'm going to be honest--I'm not going to go through all of your posts on this site to tell you if I think you should leave the man you're seeing. I haven't really seen people here just say, "Leave him! He's no good for you!" but I suppose it would really depend on what you're posting about your partner.

  • 5. I would like to think that many littles on the site are plenty capable, and often are, in adult-mindsets or have the ability to be change mindsets when needed. I can't speak for everyone here though, but I do know that there may be some users with emotional, mental, or physical disabilities that cause them to react or act in little-ways more often.

    In general, I think most of the responses provided through the site are well thought out and appropriate.

Rosetta wrote:because even though we are liking to feel little, losing your adult rights and credibility is just NOT okay.


Right. Just like Person C having every right to request conversation go private and express their thoughts and observations from frequent chatroom conversation. Just like that!

Rosetta wrote:And of course, there will always be cute, innocent little (girls) private messaging others moaning about how much they are being "bothered" by lurkers/predators/attention.


Like I said, I haven't had to face these complaints yet. I expect they will occur at some point though. If you've been given these complaints, please refer them to issue a formal complaint to the Admin. account. Thanks.

Rosetta wrote:If they were really that bothered by it, then they can, as very capable and primarily adult people, very well message the people they are bothered by and please ask them to stop.


Then why are you posting about this publicly and not private messaging Person C to talk about how you feel they shouldn't have spoken up to request a conversation go private or that their observations were misunderstood? I'm not sure why we're having this discussion at this point. This is absolutely the pot calling the kettle black! Person C can't say how they feel or what they think but you can because..? Because, why? Because you agree with yourself? Because you didn't understand the viewpoint of Person C? I'm truly not sure.

If someone sees predatory behavior then why are they not allowed to show concern? Why are they not permitted do to that, Rosetta? Both Person C and B were in the chat at the same time. Person C said the complaint and concern outwardly in front of Person B's textual face--not behind their back. Person B had every opportunity at that point to say, "Hey, Person C, I see what you're saying but let me explain myself a little bit so you have an idea of why I interact with females in chat the way I do..." I mean, wouldn't that have been the most mature, adult way to handle a personal complaint?

Rosetta wrote:And this message comes in hopes of not yet having to say goodbye to good, adult freedom in a CG/l community.


I don't play favorites and, as much as I thoroughly enjoy your conversation and feedback on the site, it's entirely your adult decision to leave. I will not beg, plead, or otherwise try to convince you not to leave and find another CG/l site online for you. I understand that we may not be a fit for every person, and wish you the best in your endeavors if you choose it's in your best interest to leave.



Also, since I've addressed all of your concerns and you're not providing a request or further feedback that is actionable on the site, then I will close this thread. This section of the forum isn't for open discussion so if you'd like to discuss stereotypes in the community you're welcome to post appropriately in the Caregiver and/or Little discussion(s) area(s).

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Rosetta
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About "predators" and general rivalry or overprotection- Part II

Postby Rosetta » 10 months ago

First of all, thanks everyone for their reply to the previous thread!
By request of Admin, we can discuss it better overhere

First of all, I thank you Admin for your valuable points of view on "the situation", and allowing me to see these different perspectives. However, you are also right in asking following question:
Then why are you posting about this publicly and not private messaging Person C

Which made me realize I forgot to explain something important, that I somehow assumed would be clear enough just by the general form I had written the post in.

There was a reason why I had not taken the original situation as an example, and reason why I named everyone "Person A/B/C" instead of by name. This reason being that, the original situation, was already terminated, and, as you perfectly correctly suggested, this matter was addressed between all the parties, in private chat. So indeed, this whole "kettle calling the pot back" thing wasn't exactly true.
I also expressed to the person in question that I see an appreciate their concerns and fully understand where they are coming from.

The difference with the thread I made, was a more general point of view. A personal concern I had, that came from the attitude of this sort of situation that occurred however NOT the situation itself!
Hence why I only pointed out things that were concerning me in a general way, not something directly related to the people involved in the situation. And, if there were topics that did directly concern the people of the situation, I also discussed these with them privately.

So really, the goal of the post was more a general concern of mine regarding the undermining of judgement of the people addressed. It is true, it seems highly related to the situation that occurred which indeed, would only be obvious to Person C who can keep track of the behavior of others - and it is true, it is absolutely preferred if Persno C then refers to this behavior publicly in chat where everyone can react. However, if this may happen, and Person C can take over the situation by confronting and telling another how to behave, it WILL undermine the good judgement of the target. It reminds me A LOT in the times when Fathers were still deciding who would make a good husband for their daughters - and I don't want to just aimlessly stand by while the flirtations I was involved in come abruptly to a halt without me having been bothered by it.
That is a more general point I wanted to make, WHICH, to be clear DID NOT HAPPEN; Because in our actual situation, Person C just demanded Person A to take it private.

So now that this is clear, I simply want to talk about the possibility of this attitude happening, and the effect it has on me when two guys were to take it out on each other while the girl stands by watching while they decide in her stead who she can receive flirtations from and who not.
And the second point being something that also derived from the actual situation is when a reason for behaving a certain way towards someone / judging a certain someone is BASED upon the gossip that was spread about this person over private messages. And I am NOT saying it should be reported to an Admin right away, but to the person they have been spreading the gossip about in the first place! This is exactly the behavior I'm afraid of, that we start to create an environment where it is okay to feel "bothered" by Person A, then bothered Person B chats privately to Person C, who then spreads more rumors, or runs to Admin as if they are all victimized without anyone EVER actually acting like an adult and maybe first of all addressing Person A? I think it is Person B's job to address things to Person A if they feel bothered by them. Running off gossiping creates an atmosphere of blabbing and gossiping while Person A might never even get the chance of understanding what is going on.

Luckily, this did not actually occur in the situation like this, since when things escalated they were addressed to Person A after all. However, when I personally discussed things with people, I heard a lot of "this person told me..." stories which gave me concerns about the possibility of gossip happening.

Now, to make clear why I am expressing these concerns publicly:
-> Regarding the situation: I actually told the person that if they simply wanted to publicly address their concerns with someones reputation they absolutely should do that (instead of private messaging others and telling what they heard from other people), however, as a general concept it could maybe happen indeed in a more "on equal grounds" concern rather than plainly telling someone they ARE a predator/lurker/whatever negative adjective they want to use. That way, the person who the concerns are about, actually has a chance to react to them in a mature manner other than feeling targeted and picked on out of the blue due to a bunch of "behind his back" gossiping that had been happening beforehand.
-> Because I was part of another community before that i "lost" due to increasing amounts of gossip happening and admins taking part in said gossip and then basically acting upon these prejudices (whether they were right or wrong) outside of the people's better judgement that were actually a part of the situation.
I am NOT comparing communities, I am NOT saying goodbye to this community, I am ONLY expressing the concern that, as this community grows, I hope this one will NOT turn out into a gossiping, overly dramatic scene where generally "the core-group" of members finds to have a right to judge others and spread word about them in a negative manner, thus effectively undermining peoples positive interaction with said person.

And all this, I want to stress once more, are merely concerns, independently of any situation that occurred, but yes, derived from, in hopes these concerns will not become reality as the community grows.
It is easy for someone to negatively react towards someone after they have heard negative gossip about this person. However, nevertheless, a beautiful and positive connection can be formed between two or more people who were not affected by gossip and those people standing by and watching will not feel something wrong about it when they leave judgement in the right hands and say no to negative rumors right from the start or address them in the appropriate manner.

I strongly believe that the only appropriate manner in addressing complaints about others (gossip) is to tell the complainer to have a private conversation with the person they are complaining about.

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Re: About "predators" and general rivalry or overprotection- Part II

Postby admin » 10 months ago

Hi, Rosetta:

When I stated that the thread was closed, and that you were welcome to create a new thread about a related topic, I was not asking you to create another thread to continue replying to my post and expanding this specific topic. My post ended this specific conversation about what happened. Create a new thread about a new topic to discuss stereotypes or ideas if that's what you want to discuss. Please do not continue to discuss the Person A/B/C situation over and over again on the forum. The facts have been stated and viewpoints have already been outlined. That situation has been addressed in it's full entirety and there is nothing further to discuss other than going back and forth about opinions.

Thank you.

Side notes:
There was and is no gossip occurring. All statements were said to the textual face of all parties involved. Gossiping would involve people talking about other members to someone else when those specific members are not online. Again, we aren't the other site and I'm sorry you had a bad experience there. Please, please, please stop comparing us to other sites. Just because you "saw it happen" once doesn't mean it reoccurs every where you go.

There is no "core group" in the community here. All members are treated equally. The members that have golden supporter status are only given more site abilities (functionalities) as rewards for donating to the site. As stated previously, I don't play favorites. Also, there is one moderator and one Admin. at this point.

I absolutely adore our members here and am excited to see us learn about each other as we find our way through these special dynamics. What I dislike is seeing someone post a thread on the forum so that they can express how a specific member was "wrong" in their actions or words rather than trying to discuss it with that person (in chat or privately) and expecting it to not start drama.
The action (merely words at this point) itself came down to perspective. I can pull public chat logs if I desire and re-read everything that occurred. Facts are facts and every thing else is opinion and perspective. We have to keep in mind that we need to be respectful to other members at all times as best as we are capable. Some of us do not have as much tact when dealing with subjects and, thus, sometimes textually conversing creates further misunderstandings. Especially when everything is being addressed by 1 or 2 half sentences that were said. This is why it's important to converse with the person instead of posting a thread on the forum expecting people to "back you up" in a defense that doesn't even need to occur. The entire site did not see what happened and it's not the business of the entire site right now because it affected 2 people -- Person B and Person C. Person C stated something in front of Person B. Person B could have addressed it either publicly or privately with Person C if they desired. That is that.


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